2010 Olympics: Team Russia aftermath

Also thought I'd add 3 things I personally hope to see in hockey with my own eyes:

1) A Montreal-Toronto playoff series. Sounds kind of silly, but since I've been alive (1981) it hasn't happened. Though the rivalry has lost some of it's spark due to no playoff meetings since 1979, it would still be very cool to watch the 2 oldest and once most hated rivals play it out over 7 games.

2) Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final go into overtime. Imagine 2 months of grueling hockey coming down to the last shot wins. The thought of that intermission between the 3rd period and OT of a Finals Game 7 alone gives me goosebumps as I type this. For the record I had this down for the Olympics as well, but of course we just saw one.

3) A Stanley Cup championship for my hometown Canucks. Hopefully one day....

Take care all!!!

My opinion is that the NHL will be involved in the Sochi Games. The players want it and with any luck, Mr. Bettman will be gone by then. But we would need a lot of luck for that to happen. You never know though. Gary basically got the NHL to buy the Coyotes and due to revenue sharing the other owners are watching and paying for a Phoenix team that makes as much in 1 season as any Canadian team makes in 20 games!!! That means 1 Vancouver Canucks' (for example) season is equal to 4 years in Phoenix. I can't wait for the day that he is no longer working for the NHL. But I digress on that matter.

The players definitely love the Olympics and the fact that it's a world event makes the tourney even more global than a World Cup of Hockey. This reason alone should make the NHL involved in Sochi. Also, what's the point of having so many teams start their seasons off in Europe (like the last few years) to grow the game, and then move backwards in progression by not playing in that tourney? Bettman stated that it doesn't make fiscal sense to send NHLers to Sochi because the NHL doesn't make any money, they have to compress their schedule, and the players get paid for no reason during the break. I believe his views are short-sighted. I watched the parties in Prague in 98 after they won the Gold. That type of national celebration is in now way harmful to the sport of hockey or the NHL. Same with Sweden in 06. And also for the team's that make it to the final. Though they didn't win, they did cheer their team to the end and non hockey fans did start to watch the game.

Let's hope logic supersedes ego in this case and the world's best players end up playing in the world's best tournament.

Cheers for now!

I don't know how you can like both. WAS-PIT is going to become an even bigger rivalry 10-15 years from now when these two teams will be meeting in the playoffs on a regular basis. For me, the Ovechkin vs Crosby rivalry is the best in sports because both began playing in the NHL on the exact same day, so nobody can say, well different era, different conditions, etc. Like the Leafs-Canadiens rivalry, you can only choose one. So for me it's Ovechkin and the Capitals. With my Leafs out of the playoffs for the 5th straight year, I will be cheering for the capitals to go all the way

Igor,

My favorite teams are the Washington Capitols and the Pittsburgh Penguins. I like the Leafs also, mainly because they are always an underdog.

John,

I have that feeling also that the NHL will skip Sochi. There are too many teams and too many players with Olympic hangovers, like the sharks, ducks, blackhawks. Also, because the time zone will be much different, these games will not be in prime time, so they will not generate much interest on the major US networks. I am sure that some owners will be against it for security reasons, because they trust countries like Canada and US, but they might have a bad feeling about their players going to Russia.

I personally would love to see it, I think that hockey is the best sport in the world, and if it is an Olympic sport, you need to have the best players playing. It will help hockey grow internationally in Europe, and if your name is Gary Bettman, quit selling the game in the desert, and actually market the game where people care. I wonder what would happen if some of the Russians like the Ovie, Kovalchuk and Malkin bolted their NHL teams for the Olympics. But if they chose not to go, they have to at least make the World Cup of hockey in (aug-sept) no less than once every 4 years to have a best-on-best tournament.

Also John, you make great points about this double standard for Russians in the NHL. Is the NHL afraid or jealous of them? People keep bringing up Ovechkin defensive play. Who cares about that, he is an offensive machine 50-60 goals, 100-120 pts. By the way, he is +43 this season, tops in the NHL, crosby is only +8 and when was the last time someone questioned his defensive play. Have you seen some of Ovie's defensive plays on breakaways, they are sick! Gretzky, Lemieux were even bigger cherry pickers and just waited for the puck, rarely ever went into their own zone. Joe Sakic was probably one of the few star players that would play end to end. So, in essense Ovechkin is pretty damn good defensively for a superstar. Also, I am getting sick and tired of people talking about Ovechkin being dirty. Dirty or not is up for debate, for a fact, he is physical and a big hitter, which is unique for superstars. If this was a canadian player playing this way, nobody would even talk about it, but because he is European, there is this double standard.

Lastly, if you are a big hockey fan, what team do you cheer for in the NHL?

Jeff and Igor

In the message below, I meant to say that because Crosby is quiet and unassuming, he doesn't generate as much attention, and doesn't sell as many tickets, t-shirts and hats as Ovechkin does.

Igor,

My personal opinion is that the NHL won't go to Sochi. I hate the idea that they wouldn't, but in a way, I can't blame them. Its a hardship for the teams to take that much time off in mid-season, and they got very little in return for their efforts. There were only a handul of games on NBC network, and most games were on MSNBC or CNBC, which a lot of American homes don't have access to. In the US, almost all of the good TV times were devoted to figure skating, ice dancing, short-track speed skating, and all that x-games half-pipe crap. They got a huge audience for the Gold Medal game, near an all-time record I believe, but overall, I don't think NHL executives were too happy with what they got. All that, and the time zone differences, make it unlikely, in my opinion, for the NHL to be in Sochi.

Jeff

Gretzky and Lemieux were very average, at best, as defensive players, particularly Lemieux, who rarely ever made the trip back into his own zone. That didn't seem to limit their ice time in any way! Ovechkin isn't paid the kind of money that he is making to back check. If he puts 50-60 pucks in the net every year, they are going to be more than willing to forgive him for his shortcomings. He is the biggest media, and biggest ticket draw, that the NHL has had in years. Sidney Crosby is a fantastically gifted player, but he is very quiet and unassuming, and for better or for worse.

I don't think this is true of you, Jeff, but I do definitely believe that there is extra resentment of Ovechkin among some Canadians and Americans solely because he is Russian. On the rare occasions when I attend Minnesota Wild games, I can hear these attitudes in the crowd. Brendan Shanahan wrote about how ashamed he was in the first couple of years of Slava Fetiov's career with the Devils with the way hsi defense partners would clear a path would have an unobstructed alley to slam Fetisov into the boards. His own teammates were actually trying to help him get hurt.

Vladimir Konstantinov also said this about NHL Canadian referrees: "They hate us, and we hate them." So there is always been an element of resentment over job competition, and possibly just the presence of foreigners who were formerly mortal enemies. You notice commentators, not just Don Cherry, who feel free to unload a personal kind of criticism of Russians that they would never the guts to say about a North Americans. Cerainly, Russians are more accepted now than in the past, but they are still held to a different, higher standard in my opinion.

Jeff,

How in the world do you consider a player with 265 goals in 5 seasons, >500 pts in 5 years overrated. Surprinsingly I always hear this Crosby-Gretzky comparison, never do I hear Ovechkin compared to other greats. Did you know that Ovechkin is 5th all time in goals per game Through first 5 yers in the league, only Gretzky and Bossy scored more goals. Plus, he doesn't just score like Brett Hull, he averages 50+ assists per season, so you can't call him selfish. He is a +43 this season, Crosby is only +8. If the difference is that huge, you can't tell me this is a fluke. The pat 3 years he leads the league in even strength points, so e actually earns his points 5-5, not by cherry picking on the power-play.

Have you seen some of his defensive plays where he races back, dives and breaks up a breakaway. If you have not, check it out on youtube. He is physical, when was the last time you saw a star player like Crosby, Heatley, Nash or Stamkos body checking? So he can do anything from shooting, scoring, passing, deking, saving breakaways, and hitting.

Alright, Crosby is 8/10 in shootouts this season, and 40% on his career, Ovechkin is only 28% on his career. This isn't his strongest area, and only this year has Crosby really been a factor. Ovechkin's biggest struggles seem to be on the road with shootouts, where he is only 4/18 career wise.

What is the purpose of putting Ovechkin on the PK? He has 2 career shortanded goals, but it is better to put a hobo there instead. Bottom line, some star players play the PK, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Parise, Toews, but what is the purpose of them there. These guys are supposed to score, put some plumber on the PK

Ovechkin is overrated because he is a one-dimensional player. He plays in the offensive zone only. He has no defensive upside, i.e. back-checking, defensive zone play, never steps foot on the ice during a PK, etc. Even on the offensive side, he is no good in shoot outs. Shoot out success is pretty critical in the NHL. Just look at the points the Penguins have got from Crosby's shoot out skills alone.

People like Ovechkin more for what he does after the whistle, than what he does on the ice while the clock is running. That's fine, but lets not forget flashy celebrations are just flashy celebrations.

Canadaboy,

I am from Toronto. My favourite team is the Toronto Maple Leafs, and I know there is not much to brag about. We are one of two teams to miss the playoffs every season post-lockout, the other team being the florida panthers. But i am not a bandwagon fan, I cheer when it is good and i suffer when it's bad.

The Olympic post-mortem is still there, and it will take a while to recover, but can't forget that the stanley cup playoffs are right around the corner. I will agree with you that Vancouver is a strong contender in the west. They are probably the most complete team: goaltending, defensive depth and offence are all great and balanced. Chicago is probably better up front and on defence, but they have been slumping and goaltending has been horrible. San Jose has too much of an Olympic hangover. My pick for the East remains Washingon, but I am getting more and more worried. Sloppy defensively, struggling to score post Olympics, at times shaky goaltending, so I am worried. The East is pretty much a 3 horse race (caps, pens, devils), maybe buffalo, but not enough firepower to win 7 game series. The West is really open. canucks, hawks, sharks, wings, perhaps even coyotes could make some noise. So it will be interesting. All I hope is no PIT-DET rematch for a third year in a row. And if there is a canadian team that can win for the first time since 1993, even better.

I will take a peak at the WC to see some good hockey as well. Canada, honestly has so many olympians out of the playoffs (staal, perry,getzlaf, nash, stamkos), and instead Messier chose to take all non-olympians. As for Russia, our team will be short handed as Ovechkin, Malkin, Semin and Kovalchuk will all be in the playoffs, but we do have some stars in the KHL who play very well on the big ice and they will all be available since they finish the playoffs by mid-late June.

I know how it feels to be hockey mad. I also follow every major or even minor hockey event, hate to miss playoff games, and hockey fanatism is just a disease destroying me. World Cup of Hockey should be coming in 2011 or 2012, and I would love to see it every four years in Aug-Sept. That way we would have a best-on-best tourney every 2 yrs.

Lastly, how many of you think that the NHL will go to Sochi? My advice would be for Gary Bettman to stop trying to sell hockey in the deserts and sell the game where people actually care, like in Europe. I know the time zones will be different and these games will not be in prime time, but more like 7am earliest and 2pm latest (Eastern Time), but this the Olympics gary.
Right now it doesn't look encouraging that the owners will vote on it, considering how the sharks, ducks, blackhawks and rangers are doing post-olympics. some individual players like iginla and gaborik are also really slumping. But lets just hope this happens.

Canadaboy,

1) Thank you for correcting my error about the size of the ice in Salt Lake City. I just assumed that it was standard North American size, and that is incorrect.

2) You have no need to apologize as far as I am concerned. I think your posts have reflected very good points that are well supported. Some of the Canadian guys who have posted at times have done some chest-thumping and taunting, but that is okay, its no crime and its all part of the fun.

3) One thing everyone can agree on is that Canada won all the games that mattered, and that "O Canada" was sung from the victory stand! Again, congratulations for the great accomplishments. All of these guys basically play in the same league, and in any game, any of these teams could upset the other. In arguably the most critical game of the tournament, Canada came out with guns blazing, while the Russian team shot blanks. I hope that the Russians will have better success in Sochi, but until then, Canada deserves to wear the crown.

My post was too long, here is the second part:

I should also apologize about saying the WCs are nothing. They definitely are something, but my point should have been that they are not a best on best tournament, thus they are weighted with less prestige than a World Cup of Hockey or an Olympic Games. But after watching many interviews with Ovechkin about the Stanley Cup, I'm sure that winning the Cup is second only to Olympic Gold for him. Even ahead of the WC. This is what I have seen and read from him.

I originally came on this site and made my comment because I read a few posts saying that Canada only scores garbage goals and plays a goon style hockey. I felt the need to defend what I believed were incorrect statements about Canadian hockey.

So John and Igor, thanks for your replies to my comment. Also it is great to be able to communicate with hockey fans so far away. Now, do you guys watch any of the Stanley Cup playoffs or is that something you don't focus on much? I'm crazy about hockey so I watch the World Jr's, World Cup, Olympics, Stanley Cup playoffs (almost every single game, every year) and WCs, and even the Spengler Cup. Do you have favourite NHL teams? And my last question is, if you do follow the NHL closely, who do you think is favoured to win the Cup this season. I'm born and raised in Vancouver and believe that we have a very strong chance this year. Although Chicago is scary, but their goaltending is shoddy at best I believe.

Thanks guys and Happy Birthday Pavel Bure!

John and Igor,

I am not here to argue, rather to converse about the game we all love. I appreciate your insights and apologize for appearing ignorant in any way. Perhaps my point about desire is not fair because I'm sure we can all agree that at the level all those Olympians play the game, they all have a very high level of desire to win.

One thing I will correct about John's post that replied my post is that the 2002 Olympic Ice in Salt Lake was played on the big ice. The full European size making it 1 Gold on each surface for Canada. The reason that this year's Olympics were played on the the smaller ice is because GM Place (or Canada Hockey Place as it was named during the Games) is home to the Canucks and we could not have increased the size and returned it in time for the NHL season to resume.

Also, I totally agree that we had frenzied fans and a lot of help from the crowd, but also Canada felt as much of that in pressure. I'm sure the Russians will feel that pressure as well in Sochi.

Another point I'd like to make is that no matter how shaky Canada looked versus Slovakia or the US, we did still win the tourney. Any team that wins any championship goes through adversity and so I don't think that calling a team fragile is much of a point if they ended up winning. I agree that there are cases when teams win when they get outplayed (as Canada badly outplayed the US in the first game and lost. But they also met a great goalie in Ryan Miller as well as a soft performance by Martin Brodeur compared to his standards) but I don't think this was the case against either Slovakia or the Gold medal game versus the US. Both games were even I would say, although Canada was superior to Slovakia for the first 40 mins of the semi-final.

John,

Forgot to include,

For out national hockey team to have success, it will have to start with preparation and game plans. Our talent is undisputed, all that needs to happen is consistent 5 on 5, 60 minute hockey. You can check out CBC videos, turns out that in the KHL they have line up cards not only with the roster dressed, but they also have a list of four 5man units that are rarely ever broken up. That is the problem, this method is outdated. A coach has to be more tactical, play some mind games with some matchups, maybe double-shift a star player like Ovechkin, and most importantly have a gameplan where everybody is on the same page and knows exactly what to do. Most players admitted that the preparation level in their NHL teams and on team Russia are not even close.

Also, I would like to see our players more resilient. The Soviet teams had great continuity since they played year round, but they were tough, like you mentioned, in 72, 81, 87, 79 challenge. The best part was that they played their style of hockey from the first drop of the puck to the final buzzer, and fought till the end. This is what we have to get there. Our problem right now is that players play on a different teams, they only have like two practices before a tournament (no excuse though, since every team is somewhat like that), and they are millionaires and feel like celebrities, they no longer play for the pride of CCCP or the pride of Russian crest on the front, but rather for their name on the back. We aren't the only ones who face these challenges, but in best-on-best tournaments, we have got to improve and live up to our potential.

John,

Well said. Hockey is a skill sport, but also a competitive sport. And I also like some physicality, maybe a good fight here or there, but of course it has to be hockey not smashmouth or goon games. Big hits are good also, as long as they are not headshots. Its these superpests who should be truck deivers or ditch diggers, instead are employed in the NHL, and all they do is ruin the great game of hockey. Sean Avery, Derek Boogard, Daniel Carcillo, Rick Rypien, these people have to be kicked out of hockey, they don't belong in this league.

We are starting to see less fights and trash talking than pre lockout, but the headhunting has been increasing. Its a good first step by the league to punish blindside hits, but they should take the whole thing out. NFL does a better job than protecting players' heads, the NHL finally woke up.

The cliches "height difference", "you can't hit without it" is nonsense. I know the game is fast, but everybody knows exactly where they target. I never see Chara headhunting at 6'9. Some of you people drive, how many pedestrians have you run over? because I thought you hit everything that moves! This shit gotta go.

Jeff,

You do not include the words "Ovechkin" and "overrated" in the same sentence. He can do everything from hitting to scoring in a hockey game. I like his flashy style and his goal celebrations, because frankly, NHLers are too boring in the media, and this guy wants to appeal to fans. It goes to show you that he is very passionate about the game, and proves wrong Don Cherry's bullshit about Europeans "not caring". He scores 50 goals and 100 points every year, one year he even scored 65. If we want to talk about overrated, how is Vinny Lecavalier doing? He is making 9 M this year, 10 M next year (more than Ovie), and how do his stats look. 22G, 66pts. Really only two seasons >40 G, and only two times >80 pts. Is crosby overrated? Thats up for debate, but just because he is 3-0 vs Ovechkin in the big game, his performance in those games has been mediocre. In Grand Forks CAN-RUS final, pointless. In Olympics vs RUS, pointless. In PIT-WAS G7, they both scored.

Do you really think the Capitals would be this good without Ovechkin? Sure they are 7-3, but lets look at the games, shall we, besides the Chicago game, these are shitty opponents. And it also shows you that they are deep, and they are more than just Ovechkin.

Selfish? How does he average 50+ assists per season? He must somehow make his teammates better, how does Green score 30 goals, unheard of for defenemen? He is just a natural scorer, but he sets up his teammates just as well.

Russian hockey. The talent is there. Our top 3 players (Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalxhuk) are perhaps the best in the world. We have some depth too in Semin, Datsyuk, Frolov. On defence we are pretty good. Bryzgalov could be a Vezina winner this year, Nabokov was runner up in 2008. Coaching is where we are screwed. Great players make great teams, so to win you need a good team, which means the best players. All they have to do is be unselfish, but this if haunts us sometimes.

Chris,

All I can tell you is that the Ovechkin Crosby rivalry is the best in sports, for these reasons. Both 1st overall picks, both began on the same day (so you can't say well, different era, different teammates), and also different countries (representing two of the best). Gretzky vs Lemieux they were same country and began 7 years apart. Kobe-Lebron, also different beginnings, but with 8 vs 87, it is all at the same time, and only time will tell who will be better overall. I obviously favour Ovechkin not only because he is my countryman, but because he is flashy, skilled, tough, physical and a pure goal scorer. And I do admire both of them, they are tremendous players like we haven't seen in quite a while. But the old saying goes, in a war you can only choose one side, so I go with Ovechkin.

Canada vs US @ Olympics. The final exhibition game was very entertaining. Great scoring chances, goals, big saves, all u can hope for. The final can only be exciting because Parise sent it into OT with 24 tix left. And then we all know what happened. If it ended 2-1, or say 3-1 with an empty netter, the perception would be much different. And like I said it was great from the Parise goal through OT. Without it, I don't think I would have remembered much.

canadaboy,

First regarding the world championships,
they are something. There are plenty of NHLers usually under 30 who miss the playoffs or lose in the first round and go play. It is not necessarily best-on-best, but it is good competitive open ice hockey, featuring some marquee players. Winning it is not as special as the Olympics, and probably the World Juniors are more interesting than this one, but it is enjoyable, and usually every country has about 3-6 stars.

Large ice vs small ice. At the end of the day, you gotta suck it up and play. Small ice does indeed favour North Americans (Can, US), while large ice favours Europeans (Rus, Swe, Fin, Cze). But it is not everything. In Turin, that large ice definitely gave us an edge in the quarterfinal game where we beat Canada. In Salt Lake, large surface, and despite Canada winning, it was from from their best, but I realize gold is gold. Before those late goals by Iginla and Sakic to make it 5-2, you were praying for dear life cuz they were bombarding you with shots. Russia was really screwed over by the officials there. It was 22 year anniversary of Miracle On Ice, so they really helped the Americans get past Russia in the semis. We had 1 powerplay, they had 9 in a nail biting 3-2 loss, is that match fixing or what? But whichever way you put it, our talent is there, and because of coaching, structure or maybe egoes, we have underperformed.

In Vancouver, definitely the crowd helped, and also, quit being arrogant about that game. You got a gift, take it because it doesn't come very often. Against Slovakia barely hung on, and your games with US were nailbiters. So is Canada great at hockey? yes. Do they own hockey? Absolutely not, they have serious competition.

Oh I forgot to mention,
I believe the idea that European players lack "heart" or the "desire to win" or "grit" or any of that rhetoric is total arrogant bullshit that ignorant Canadians say. The European players proved time and again in the NHL and in international competition that they have just as much desire, grit, heart, and determination as the most frenzied canadians.

So to those arrogant and ignorant Canadians who say that when Canada wins it's because we have more heart I say that the only thing that could ever help us beat those great countries is by skill.

You mention that all three Lester B. Pearson nominees were Russian and I think that's fantastic. By no means am I unappreciative of Russian hockey, I am a connoisseur of all hockey and I take a lot of enjoyment from watching all different styles of play and types of players. For instance, I very much admire how Russian players are developed and trained and I enjoy watching them play their unique and fantastic style. My point is that perhaps you are robbing yourself of enjoying different styles of play and types of players.

For instance, in your last post you said
"the game vs US in the final was garbage hockey until the final minute and OT."
The fact that you feel this way shows that you are robbing yourself of enjoying good hockey. That hockey game will go down in history as one of the single greatest hockey games ever played(The only game I've seen that was better was Game 2 of the 1987 Canada cup final between USSR and Canada).
But don't take my word for it either, all you have to do is listen to the pundits, everybody will tell you that it was fantastic hockey. I just think it's a shame you didn't get to enjoy it. I would not enjoy hockey nearly as much if I did not open myself to different styles and players.
Also, you clearly don't get to enjoy an amazing player like Crosby. Now, I am not going to offer my opinion of who I think is better between Crosby and Ovechkin. I am canadian, but I also believe Ovechkin is a tremendous player whom I admire and I get a lot of enjoyment from watching him play. Crosby is also a tremendous player, he is one of the best play makers in the world, he IS the best at boardwork in the world, he's a great two way player, one of the best faceoff centres in the world, and he's a strong leader. I am not saying you have to like Crosby more than Ovechkin. But if you think Crosby is not a great player then you are letting patriotic myopia deny you of enjoying one of the great masters of the game.

Canadaboy,

You make some excellent points, most obviously your point that Canada had the decisive edge in the game against Russia in desire, drive and willingness to fight for the puck. I think all the Russian fans on this site have acknowledged that point, and give the Canadians their due. Some of the other points I disagree with:

I think you got a little tangled up when you tried to make the nationalistic point that sounded something like: "Canada can win on any surface, large or small, while the Russians can't win on any surface." Everybody who read that was no doubt thinking about the fact that the two Gold medals Canada won were both on small, North American rinks.

Your point about the Stanley Cup might seem true from your Canadian hometown vantage point, but the fact is, as each kilometer in distance from the Canadian border increases, the Stanley Cup loses prestige. Television audiences in the US for the Stanley Cup playoffs are tiny, except for the Sunday afternoon game on NBC. All the other Stanley Cup games are played on the very small Versus network, which is only received in about 20% of American homes. In Europe, there is absolutely no interest in the Stanley Cup at all. For Europeans, it is the Olympics No. 1, the World Championships #2, and the Stanley Cup maybe #3 or #4.

I think the Canadian posters are taking a single victory with a 4-goal margin a little too far. The Russian game was by far Canada's best performance, but they barely survived a late 3rd period barrage by Slovakia, and lets face it, Canada played poorly in both games against the US. Also, I don't the advantage that comes with having a sellout crowd of frenzied supporters and referees from your own country (unheard of!) can be overemphasized. Not to take anything away from Canada - your team went out and took care of business. but, if the NHL decides to show up in Sochi, let's see what happens there, when it will be Russian crowds who will be screaming.

Forgot to add.

I do like a bit of physical hockey, FYI. Just no cheap shots, goon hockey or super pests like Sean Avery, that is what ruins the game of hockey. Canada has plenty of skill, so does Russia, Sweden, US, Finland, and maybe a couple of others. But what drives me nuts is these North Americans like Avery, Boogard, Rypien, and Domi, Barnaby,Probert who should be truck drivers or grave diggers, instead they find employment in the NHL. Europe doesn't produce goons who just ruin the game of hockey.

Chris,

Edit your work next time, because I sure didn't, and here's what happens typos.

Clearly if Canada wins (not always) but a fare share, than they must do something right. I meant to say, Ovechkin is the best hockey player today, obviously he is not in the same category like Gretzky, Lemieux, or our own Kharlamov and Fetisov. He has a long way too get there, but as far as today, he is the best and most complete player.

As far as hockey style, hey, gotta do what you gotta do, whatever the rules allow, take advantage of it. Sure, Canada is capable of playing flashy hockey as well, but the game vs US in the final was garbage hockey until the final minute and OT. Canadians tend to make quick passes, create traffic and forecheck on D. The stretch pass that almost all Europeans love to use is nice but dangerous. Can't argue that Russians are the best at dangling and undressing the D, look up all the greatest goals, some may be by Bobby Orr, the rest would be by the Russians: Bure, Ovechkin, Fedorov, Kovalchuk. And btw, who were the nominees for the Hart and Pearson in 2009. All three Russians.

Just don't tell me that Europeans can't win, or have no heart or play for stats. Ovechkin is perhaps the only superstar that plays physically. Detroit Red Wings have made the post-season 19 years in a row with a ton of Europeans from Russia and Sweden, 6 president trophies, 4 stanley cups, so enough of this Don Cherry nonsense.

Igor wrote "In terms of individual skill, we are the best in the world. Canada has never had anybody like Ovechkin, and Crosby is nothing even close"

This statement right here shows what is wrong with the European philosophy on hockey. Many Proponents of European hockey have the peculiar belief tha Canadians are not skilled at hockey. Such as yourself Igor. The problem with this is that you have defined in your mind what it means to be skilled at hockey by a criteria that is specific to your own style of play. What I mean is, Canadians are very skilled at hockey, they are just skilled in ways that you do not identify with because they are different than the skills developed by the Russian system. That is fine by me, but it is dangerous for you because if you do not acknowledge our skill set then you cannot learn from us and become better at hockey.
The misconception is that Canada plays "Dump and Chase" hockey, and that our players have no skill but we are just big and hit alot. First of all, Canada does not play "dump and chase" because dumping a puck and chasing it does not win hockey games. Canda plays a counter-attack system launched from forced turnovers. The reason we "dump" the puck into the opposition zone is simple. If your strategy is to force the other team to turn the puck over, you might as well force them to turn it over when they are close to their own net.
Second, if Canada only wins because they are big and like to hit then explain something to me. How come Germany never wins at hockey. Their players are bigger and more physical than ours. So there must be something else which makes us better than the Germans. The answer is skill.

Thinks about it, Russia plays a puck control system, they are the best in the world at it. Canada plays a turnover/counter attack system. How could Canada ever force the best puck control team in the world to turn the puck over unless they had tremendous skill.

Like I said, if you don't want to admit we are skilled then that is fine by us, we'll just keep winning. But if you want to appreciate good hockey in all it's forms then you should think hard about what I write.

Igor,

Please ignore the last two sentences of my last message. They are fragments that I forgot to delete.

Igor,

I got an error message last night because my message was too long, so 'll try to keep it more brief. You and I are definitely on the same page. Russian teams need to be much more physical, and even more important, much more passionate and intense. The best Russian players play in the NHL, although there is a chance that some could migrate to the KHL. Except for Datsyuk, all the best Russian players are offensive stars who don't play much defense. That was evident in the Olympic games.

By physical hockey, I don't mean goon hockey. Goon hockey ruins the game, drives away some smaller players that have great skills, and diminishes the quality of play. I hope Russia will never permit goon hockey in any form. On the other hand, what happened at the Olympics, particularly against Canada, cannot be allowed to continue. Canada was on fire, while the Russian flame seemed to burn out. No one wearing the Russian crest on the front of their sweater should be allowed to surrender to pressure that easily. Russian players should be willing to accept whatever physical pain is needed to control play, and they should hand out a few bruises themselves. If you don't think Russians can combine consummate skill with intense physically punishing hockey, look at soem old DVD's of the 1979 Challenge Cup.

The Russian hockey bosses should take advantage of the opportunity to build a national team among KHL players. If the NHL doesn't show at Sochi, then the KHL will have to be relied on. It is a real opporunity!

All of the victims of the subway bombings in Moscow are in our thoughts!!

Sadly, those days are gone, though not necessarily forever.

Times have changed now, and most Russian stars play in the NHL.

"In terms of individual skill, we are the best in the world. Canada has never had anybody like Ovechkin, and Crosby is nothing even close."

Wow.... Canada has never had anybody like Ovechikin? Ovechkin is not even the best player in the NHL today. He is one dimensional, selfish and undisciplined... kinda like the way he played in the Olympics.. go figure. Pavel Datsyuk plays the game better than Ovechkin.

The Capitals don't even miss a single step when he is serving suspensions for his random attempts to injure other players. In fact, they play better. I think its becuase they focus on the game rather than on setting up / pandering to Ovechkin's relentless need for self-glorification.

As far as the word 'never' is concerned. I guess the guy who posted has never heard of Canadian's Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, etc. etc. The idea that Ovechkin even comes close is laughable, and clearly indicates a lack of hockey knowledge.

There is a reason the Russians do poorly in best-on-best compititions. Its simple. Russian players don't measure up. The development system isnt there. The KHL is worse than the AHL, nevermind the NHL. There are too few Russian kids playing hockey to feed the system.

It's very interesting to read the comments of some of these posters.

Firstly, the World Championships are nothing. It's a tournament where all the teams that miss the Stanley Cup playoffs' players go to. Nobody wants to go there because they would rather be playing for the Stanley Cup. So just to let you know, that tournament means very little in terms of major International competitions. Ask Alex Ovechkin if he would like to win 10 WC's or 1 Stanley Cup and I promise you he would take the Cup.

Secondly, all this garbage about Canada being better because the ice surface was smaller.....let me see here. Nagano 98, big ice surface, no Russian gold. Salt Lake City 02, big ice surface, Canada gold. Torino 06, big ice surface, no Russian gold. Team Russia, although skillful (Pavel Bure is my all-time favourite player, especially because I'm born and raised in Vancouver) has not won a major Best-on-Best international tournament ever. The Soviet Union team did, but Russia has not once won any tournament when every country has sent their best players.

Also, the Russian coach was probably the least effective coach in the tournament. Team Russia had the benefit of having the last change in the Canada-Russia game and he didn't change his tactics at all or take advantage of the last line change. But on that day, no amount of coaching could have changed the outcome, Canada out hit, passed, skated, and out-skilled the Russians from the first play. The Russian defencemen were scared to get the puck in their zone because they knew a Canadian would hit them. And on the third goal Canada scored it showed the difference between Canada and Russia. Rick Nash was on the Canada goal line behind FOUR RUSSIAN PLAYERS when the play began and he out skated all 4 of those players and not one of them even tried to catch him. That right there showed the difference between the desire of both teams on that day. And to top it off, Ilya Bryzgalov was by far the better goalie all tournament long, as well as all season long in the NHL. How Nabokov was the starting goaltender in that game I will never know. It simply made no sense at all, that's all I can say about that.

So please, all you people posting about how Canada has horrible players and garbage goals, just watch the replay of the Games and notice that it takes more than fast stickhandling and quick skaters to win these tournaments. It takes heart, guts, desire and as well as skill, and speed. What's the point of having more skill if you never have a chance to touch the puck?

Listen to Evgeni Malkin and learn from Canadians and North Americans like us Canadians learned from Europeans. It's just too bad that you can't learn how to desire something more. That has to come from within each player and cannot be taught.

So long!

Das Vi Danya!

John,

I am on the same page here with you. It appears to me that you like a mix of skill, finesse, but also a bit of physical play and definitely aggressiveness without the puck. To me that is the way hockey is meant to be played. If you watched the CAN-USA final, for the most part it was garbage hockey. When Parise tied it with 24 sec left, it became a little more memorable. And of all the people, it had to be Crosby, that motherfucker who now gets all the fame even though he disappeared in the Olympics. But oh well, I still have that Kovalchuk goal fresh in my mind.

The World Cup should be around 2011-2012, and Russia appens to pay in the North American pool, so all their games will be played in Canada. Small rink is a bit of a disadvantage, because the Canadians simply suck on the big ice, their dump ins and forecheck does not work because the boards are too long. I hope the referees will not listen to the fans, cz thats what happened in Quebec '08. First period, just awful officiating and we were in an early hole. But despite that we won. I hope our guys take this seriously because the '96 and '04 World Cups nobody cared. And they should also strip Morozov of captaincy, honestly put a real superstar with a C. Ovechkin or Kovalchuk should get it.

Tell me if you noticed this, but I watched some of Russia's world championship games the last few years. They have just 1 loss in 3 years, wich is remarkable. But too many games are too close. At the end of the day, I mean if we are chamions, i'll take it, but against Belarus or even the Czech Republic, we should not be surrendering 5 goals, or scoring only 1 and going to overtime. I noticed this,we need to learn how to play 60 minutes of consistent hockey, and apply pressure. This tournamen in Germany will be interesting and it is a god way for the KHL to show what it has. We wll probably have no NHLers, as all of Ovie, Geno, Kovalchuk, Semin and even Frolov will be inthe playoffs. The goalie will also be from KHL. But we can still be great, the ZZM line plays well on large ice, and Radulov, Mozyakin, Tereshenko can get us some goals. I'm not expecting gold, but I will be hoping.

here's a fact...USA has not won the IIHF word championship since when? ......1933. I wonder if they end the drought here once and for all. Plenty of Maple Leafs should be on team USA, but seriously 1933. Last year we beat them in the semis on a late goal by Radulov, so they were close, but they haven't been to the finals since 1950. It takes this long to win 3 games in a row?

John,

I am on the same page here with you. It appears to me that you like a mix of skill, finesse, but also a bit of physical play and definitely aggressiveness without the puck. To me that is the way hockey is meant to be played. If you watched the CAN-USA final, for the most part it was garbage hockey. When Parise tied it with 24 sec left, it became a little more memorable. And of all the people, it had to be Crosby, that motherfucker who now gets all the fame even though he disappeared in the Olympics. But oh well, I still have that Kovalchuk goal fresh in my mind.

The World Cup should be around 2011-2012, and Russia appens to pay in the North American pool, so all their games will be played in Canada. Small rink is a bit of a disadvantage, because the Canadians simply suck on the big ice, their dump ins and forecheck does not work because the boards are too long. I hope the referees will not listen to the fans, cz thats what happened in Quebec '08. First period, just awful officiating and we were in an early hole. But despite that we won. I hope our guys take this seriously because the '96 and '04 World Cups nobody cared. And they should also strip Morozov of captaincy, honestly put a real superstar with a C. Ovechkin or Kovalchuk should get it.

Tell me if you noticed this, but I watched some of Russia's world championship games the last few years. They have just 1 loss in 3 years, wich is remarkable. But too many games are too close. At the end of the day, I mean if we are chamions, i'll take it, but against Belarus or even the Czech Republic, we should not be surrendering 5 goals, or scoring only 1 and going to overtime. I noticed this,we need to learn how to play 60 minutes of consistent hockey, and apply pressure. This tournamen in Germany will be interesting and it is a god way for the KHL to show what it has. We wll probably have no NHLers, as all of Ovie, Geno, Kovalchuk, Semin and even Frolov will be inthe playoffs. The goalie will also be from KHL. But we can still be great, the ZZM line plays well on large ice, and Radulov, Mozyakin, Tereshenko can get us some goals. I'm not expecting gold, but I will be hoping.

here's a fact...USA has not won the IIHF word championship since when? ......1933. I wonder if they end the drought here once and for all. Plenty of Maple Leafs should be on team USA, but seriously 1933. Last year we beat them in the semis on a late goal by Radulov, so they were close, but they haven't been to the finals since 1950. It takes this long to win 3 games in a row?

Igor,

It is very encouraging to hear your assessment about the resurgence in financial investment and the growth in participation in junior hockey. it is also great to read news accounts about the increasing growth and stability of the Russian economy. That makes for a higher standard of living for the people, and as a byproduct, more resources to devote to recreatiojn and sports development. I think you would agree that making more hockey facilitiies available, training and recruiting qualified coaches, restoring the great hockey schools, all contribute toward building more depth into the system.

Because today's national teams don't have the chance to develop the puck control mastery that allowed Soviet teams to more or less dominate their opposition, you are right in saying that a "defense first" philosophy will be necessary to win gold medals in world class tournaments. I thought that Bykov brought that philosophy to the national team in the 2007, 2008 and 2009 World Championships, but I didn't see any evidence of defense at all in the Olympics.

The Canadian strategy was to forecheck fanatically in the Russian zone, and the Russians didn't seem to have a pre-designed strategy to clear the puck out of danger. Once the Canadians set up in front of the net, and the puck is pin-balling around, they can score a lot of goals quickly. Unfortunately, the game seemed more or less over by the middle of the first period. That is bad ooaching, of course combined with bad goaltending.

I am a Russian hockey fan first and foremost, and I am hoping that if there is a World Cup (in reality, its the old Canada Cup renamed- Canadian small rinks, Canadian frenzied fans, Canadian referees who have been known to succumb to the pressure from fans - all the same problems that the team faced in Vancouver), the team is going to have to adopt the strategies that you have described so well - defense first, clear the puck of out of the Russian zone fast, and fight hard for possession of the puck. Stay well!

John,

I agree with your first point. In terms of individual skill, we are the best in the world. Canada has never had anybody like Ovechkin, and Crosby is nothing even close. Our depth however, is another issue. After the top 5 (Ovie, Geno, Kovy, Semin, and Datsyuk), there is a huge drop. On D same thing (Gonchar, Markov, maybe Volchenkov) and nobody after that. So we are thin. Canada or US probably don't have the greatest talent, but they are all deep and similar skill wise.

As far as our system of producing players, I think it's encouraging. The Soviet collapse was tough for people to get through, but now economically Russia is stable, and hockey participation has never been higher. The problem is not really talent, but more like unity. I've seen the world juniors in recent years, some great players like Filatov, Klopov, Petrov, Tarasenko, Burnistrov. The main reason why we haven't won since 2003, is because of consistency, a bit of toughness and good chemistry. If you look at Can, US, even Czechs, Swe, Fin, Slovakia, they have a system and they are structured on offence and on defence. Russia does not have that, in Olympics everyone was on a different page. I think the pieces are there, the talent is definitely there, but structure is missing. Plus we get sloppy at times, and have too many give aways.

What needs to happen is a couple of things.

1) More passion. Russian hockey players do not always show up. I hate saying this, but in our game vs Canada we looked simply hung over. Ovechkin is a good way to start, because he plays every shift like his last, and I would love for others to follow. We need consistent 60+ minute efforts. Larionov said it best last week. The Soviets played their hockey for 60 minutes from the start to the finish. Russia currently plays one good period, one lousy. Talent is great, but effort needs to be there.

2)Two way forwards. People forget this, but former Russians were great two way forwards. Why is it that today's Russians cherry pick. It could be because they are millionaires, and play for the name on the back, not the crest on the front. We need a little more emphasis on two way 5 on 5 hockey, consistently for 60 mins.

3) Coaching. Anything. I mean Bykov did as bad of a coaching as you can imagine in Vancouver. He was pretty much on cruise control. Mike Babcock found it way too easy to outcoach him. Nabokov in goal for too long, poor chemistry, and no defensive system. He is a better coach than all his predecessors who failed to win anything, he is more modern and less old school aristocratic. If we can somehow improve on coaching and not on talent, that would be huge.

But hey, if you are like me, rooting for Russia, the world cup of hockey is coming soon, 2011 or 2012. We better redeem ourselves there and show these Canadians who rules hockey.

Igor,

Well said! I enjoyed reading your excellent analysis. Two points that you make that I particularly agree with: (1) it is unrealistic to expect any success if you are unwilling to fight for it (not fight with fists, but by outfighting the other team for the puck), and (2) if your leaders aren't leading, then the followers have no one to follow!

Before the Olympics, many journalists and television media analysts argued that Russia had the advantage in talent, and therefore should be considered the favorite to win. But as we look at the analysis above, it seems clear that the focus was on four forwards (Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk and Datsyuk) and two defensemen (Markov and Gonchar), and that the rest of the Russian team could probably be accurately described as above average, but definitely not of superior ability.

Evgeni Malkin was the last outstanding Russian talent to emerge from youth hockey, and that was nearly five years ago. Clearly, if Russia is to continue to be competitive for the highest medals, then the problem with youth hockey is going to have to be improved. It is unlikely that the NHL will participate in the 2014 Games in Sochi or in the 2018 Games, so maybe the Olympic games won't be as much of a battle of best against best, as it has been since 1998. But the fact that the Russian system is producing so few outstanding players in recent years should be cause for action.

The biggest disappointments for me were: Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk and Nabokov

Nabokov -- This guy just can't play big on the big stage. In San Jose it's not always his fault for all those early exits, bt he deserves some blame. I would have started Bryzgalov in the czech game, based on his play vs Slovakia as opposed to Nabokov vs Latvia. Also note, Bryzgalov stole the gold for us in 2009 against Canada. Nabokov in 2008 had a strong semi-final, but strggled against Canada,and thanks to Kovalchuk, we still won. Nabokov did have experience in '06 Turin, but we should have gone with the hotter netminder.

Ovechkin -- I love the way he plays, and everything about his game, just wasn't happy in Vancouver. Sure 2 goals, against Latvia, and what about the canada game, where was a ghost. I thought he would be the go-to guy, and have a great performance, but it was not to be. Pavel Bure led Russia to the finals in Nagano, and Ovie was expected the same. The ice time and power playtime were given

Datsyuk -- Unimpressed. He was supposed toe our best playmaker, all he did was score empty net goals (one). Judging by the way he plays in Detroit, i thought, man if he plays with Ovechkin, these guys will be unreal, never clicked on the first or second line.

Kovalchuk -- One goal. Just too selfish with the puck,, trying to streak down the wing and score, or cherry pick at centre ice, it all failed.

A few more points...

As previously noted, Canadians took a lot out of our Soviet art of hockey, we must make them pa their dues.

1- Forechecking is key. Something our guys do not do. They either go in the zone score, or loe the puck, and it goes back in our zone. Their D found it way too easy to skate coast to coast. With our speed, we have to forechec more.

2- Physical play. It's there, but inconsistent. Ovie's hit on Jagr was insane, but we needed more. He was the only physical player on our team. Others gotta lay it on the line

3- Defensive play. Simply put, just needs more structure. We looked disorganized. Our country as a whole just needs to produce more defencemen. Gonchar and Markov are great, but at age 36 and 34, they are soon to expire. Looking to 2014 Sochi, Dmitry Kulikov is the only stud defencemen I can think of. We are deserate for more puck moving smooth skating D men, perhaps with some size.

4- Team. Chemistry was great in the past 3 World Championships. In 2010 Olympics it wasn't there. Some players like Kovalchuk just try to do too much. We have to pass more and keep it simple. Remember that offense and defence are 5 vs 5. Being fancy with the puck is our greatest strength, but could be our worst enemy.

Structure and great coaching is what wins in a short tournament. I hope we address these areas and others I mentioned by 2014, and bring post - communist Russia its first OLYMPIC GOLD IN HOCKEY

on home ice

Allesandro,

I agree with your assessment of the Russian performances in the Olympics, although I would be a little more critical of Ilya Nikulin. His loss of mental concentration in the Slovakia game led to his giving up a totally unforced turnover of the puck, which in turn ended up on Marian Hossa's stick, and into the net. Its possible that that was the most critical error by a Russian in the Olympics, because if they had not given up that goal, they may have postponed their match with Canada until a later round. At a minimum, that would have given the Russians a chance to play for a medal.

Pavel

Thanks for your comment. With such a bad outcome it was right to be a bit harsh I think. Probably some players would deserve a mark a little bit higher, but this is what you get when you finish a tournament in this way. Nikulin did play well, but not in the own zone, look again the Slovak goal in the round robin!
Everyone knows why Bykov didn't call Zubov, but it's not Korneev's fault. He played well, but he shouldn't have been used as shooting defenseman. We had better players for that.
Regarding Ovechkin, yeah probably it was a little harsh, but he was the most awaited player and against Canada he didn't touch a puck.

Ilya Bryzgalov: B+
I agree with you

Evgeny Nabokov: D
I agree with you

Defencemen

Andrei Markov: C+
I agree with you

Anton Volchenkov: C+ (I would have given him B)
He was the best defender during the tournament for Russia, throwing strong checks and getting the puck out of Russia's zone, I would have given him B)

Dmitriy Kalinin: C
I agree with you.

Sergei Gonchar: C
I agree with you.

Fedor Tyutin: C-
I agree with you.

Ilya Nikulin: C- (I would have given him C)
I was impressed by his play. He was solid during the tournament although he can still improve in some areas.

Denis Grebeshkov: C-
I agree with you.

Konstantin Korneev: C-
I agree with you. He has a nice shot but why Zubov did not play over him is still a mystery to me.

Forwards

Sergei Fedorov: C+
I agree.

Evgeni Malkin: C
I agree.

Pavel Datsyuk: C
I agree.

Alexei Morozov: C
I agree.

Maxim Afinogenov: C
I agree.

Danis Zaripov: C-
I agree.

Viktor Kozlov: C- (I would have given him D+)
He was the slowest player on the ice for Russia and could not keep up with the other forwards. He did nothing of consequence.

Alexander Radulov: C- (I would have given him C+)
I thought he played pretty well. He controlled the puck and made plays against the opponents but they just did not go in. However that was more than some did in the tournament.

Sergei Zinoviev: C-
I agree with you. He is a better player than this and we did not see his scoring touch.

Alexander Ovechkin: D (I would have given him C-)
Perhaps this was a bit harsh. He played terrible in the game against Canada but he was important in the Latvia and Czech Republic games. However he can play better than this, but I don't think he was bad to the point of letter D.

Ilya Kovalchuk: D
I agree with you. He did not take over control of play the way he is capable.

Alexander Semin: D
I agree with you. He is very talented but he did not do very much with the puck.